If nonexistence can't be experienced, then is it really "nothingness" after we die?This is assuming an atheist or naturalistic viewpoint.
In a completely material universe, would there necessarily be "oblivion" or "complete cessation of experience" after we die?
NONEXISTENCE => birth => death => NONEXISTENCE
If both states of nonexistence are identical, then why wouldn't "birth" happen again, albeit a completely different organism, with no supernatural, death-defying connections between both states of consciousness?
If you die, the experience of "you" will end, because your body and brain will be dead. But "experience" or subjectivity itself....that does not die because other organisms are born in spite of our own deaths.
Why wouldn't this cycle repeat endlessly? i.e. nonexistence -> birth -> death -> nonexistence (then what logically follows here except "birth" again?....after all NOTHING preceded us being here in the first place except biological processes....so why wouldn't it repeat?)
sort of like "rebirth sans transmigration...or rebirth without continuity, or soul" but even that isn't quite right because it has a mystical ring to it
In a material universe, is it possible that there is "something" after death because it is impossible by definition to experience nonexistence?
ungh: i'm not suggesting anything will carry over....If person X dies, his brain will be dead. No carryover at all. But wouldn't that mean "nonexistence" again....and what if a new organism is born? It's basically the same spot "we" were in before birth.....but how the heck did we get subjectively aware in the first place.....just wondering if the process repeats, albeit no soul or carryover....just in a disconnected sense.
Dennis: You are right, "my" consciousness will cease to exist after death. But what about consciousness in general? New organisms are born all the time....does EXPERIENCE itself end after death?
Some thoughtful answers so far but the question has been misread. This article
http://www.naturalism.org/death.htm explains it in further detail. I AM NOT SUGGESTING OUR SELVES CARRY OVER AFTER DEATH.
Thanks so far for the answers
To god_of: Right, I know I am gone and no longer exist. But wasn't this the same state before "I" was born. Couldn't there be a new life of awareness, albeit without any trace of "my" atoms or molecules? In other words, "life" itself continues after one organism ceases to "be". A new organism is born....Will it be "nothingness" after death or a state of "awareness" inside a completely new set of atoms and molecules?
ungh: "i mean, it's sort of strange to say i'm connected to another individual by dying since they are born. it's like saying because i walk out of a room and then someone else walks in we're connected."
It would seem strange in that sense if you are both alive. But imagine hypothetically that you cease to exist....and the "someone else" that enters the room is a newborn baby. Since there is no trace of "you" left....i.e. the "lack of a thing" that preceded your existence in the first place.....what would prevent the same sequence from occurring again, i.e. "you" are that newborn baby? (this is semantical treachery to explain, since in use of the word "you", i don't mean that there is any trace of the dead previous "you" left.....just that the absence of being, or lack of a thing, is precisely the concept that happened before you were born. (as i word this, it sounds like i'm explaining something literal, but it is not.
I am only using it in the sense that "you", as your current self, did not exist before you were born. So there is a void of "you". But since non-existence is not an experience, by default is subjective awareness continuous, albeit experienced as many different life forms, consecutively?
"we're not exactly connected to the people, as they are different instances of the cycle. but the cycle won't go on forever. it will end whenever the biomasses (human bodies) supporting consciousness die out.
though in a way, i don't know that i quite understand the question. i think this may be a case sort of like when a person says that god is love. it's like, ok, sure technically you're right if you're just going to worship love as a god, but it doesn't need the extra label, because we've already got a label for love: it's called "love." is it sort of like that?"
not sure what you mean in the last two paragraphs
Proxima Centauri
Simple: where were you before birth?
THAT'S WHAT IT WILL BE LIKE AFTER YOU DIE!
ungh
because you're assuming something will carry over, when consciousness is a biochemical/electrical function of the brain.
now, what you're suggesting COULD be possible, but it in no way "logically follows" that that necessarily must be the case.
"i'm not suggesting anything will carry over....If person X dies, his brain will be dead. No carryover at all. But wouldn't that mean "nonexistence" again....and what if a new organism is born? It's basically the same spot "we" were in before birth.....but how the heck did we get subjectively aware in the first place.....just wondering if the process repeats, albeit no soul or carryover....just in a disconnected sense."
well, i think you may be looking at nonexistence a little funny. You seem to be characterizing it as if it's a literal type of object or other brand of existence where you don't exist, however the problem is that non-existence isn't a thing or a state of being, it's the lack of a thing, the lack of a state of being.
i mean, it's sort of strange to say i'm connected to another individual by dying since they are born. it's like saying because i walk out of a room and then someone else walks in we're connected.
we're not exactly connected to the people, as they are different instances of the cycle. but the cycle won't go on forever. it will end whenever the biomasses (human bodies) supporting consciousness die out.
though in a way, i don't know that i quite understand the question. i think this may be a case sort of like when a person says that god is love. it's like, ok, sure technically you're right if you're just going to worship love as a god, but it doesn't need the extra label, because we've already got a label for love: it's called "love." is it sort of like that?
mortoo revisited
dont worry about it you wont know
Mighty Putty
Its not that nonexistence isnt possible, its the part where you experience it that isnt possible.
You wont experience nonexistence because there wont be any "you" to experience it.
Dennis
Your consciousness and perception of the world relies completely on the atomic composition of your body and brain. When that dies, there will never again be the same exact collection of matter. Yes, the matter that composed your body may go on to compose another, but your consciousness will cease to exist.
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